Community Highlight: Veterans Archives
Podcast Transcription
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Maddy: Hi everyone. Welcome to this episode of PFCU's Money Talk podcast. Before we jump into this interview, please note that this episode includes discussion of sensitive topics, including suicide, that may be difficult for some listeners. Please listen with care. Here's my interview with Bill.
Today I'm joined by special guest, Bill Krieger, the President of Veterans Archives, which we will get into what that is here in a bit.
But a little bit about Bill. He served 10 years in the United States Navy, achieving rank of Petty Officer First Class. He continued his career in the Michigan Army National Guard and retired at the rank of Captain after 21 years of combined service. He also served as the commander of the 144th Military Police Company during his combat tour in Iraq. And during his tenure, he has been recognized with numerous honors.
He continues to stay actively involved in the military community as a life member of both the VFW and the National Guard Association and has held the role as legislative chair for the National Guard Association of Michigan. Whoa. That was a lot.
Bill: Yeah. You know, when you're writing it out, it doesn't seem like a lot. If someone reads it, it's kind of embarrassing.
Maddy: Embarrassing.
Bill: Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know.
Maddy: No, I mean, it's wonderful. I was… I told you I was looking at your website, and I was reading all the honors you've gotten and the recognition and it's pretty incredible. Could you talk about your experience in the military a little bit more from your personal experience?
Bill: I can do that. And I'll try and not make it too long of a story, but 21 years.
Maddy: No, no, I love it.
Bill: Yeah. So, I joined the Navy. I left for boot camp in December of 1984, the day after Christmas, actually. And I did not join the Navy for any altruistic reason. My girlfriend had broken up with me and I was like, well, what am I going to do now? Cause I work for her dad.
Maddy: Oh my gosh.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. So, she went off to college and education was not important in my family. So, I was just going to do whatever I was doing. So, I joined the Navy, went off to basic training. You know, it was the mid-eighties, electronics and technology was just starting to come about. So, they really sold me on the technical training that I would get. Worked on guided missile computer systems, learned troubleshooting, had a great time in the Navy. You know, back then, I think the catchphrase was “join the Navy, see the world.” And man, did I ever see the world in the best way possible. I cannot say enough good things. It was like being on a 10-year cruise around the world. So, it was amazing. Now, I'm not going to say there weren't times where it wasn't fun. I learned discipline, I learned, you know, to be on time. I learned a skill which later got me my job with Consumers Energy, which is where I worked there for 28 years, before retiring a few years ago. Can't say enough good things about the things that I learned in the Navy. Got out, joined Consumers Energy, which the utility business, again, what a great place to work. People say at all times, Consumers Energy, what a great place to work. It was a great place to work, had a great time there, but I missed the military.
Some people would say I lost my mind. So, I thought, well, I'll just join the Michigan National Guard. What the heck? So, on Valentine's Day in 1999, I raised my right hand again and joined the Michigan National Guard, this time as a military policeman. One of my goals my whole life since I was a kid was to be a police officer. And I thought what a great way to be able to do that, can do this and I can serve my country, which I did. You know, looking back, don't think there's anything I would change about that. I, you know, I was an enlisted person and as an enlisted person, I got tired of being subject to other people's bad decisions. So, when I was 38 years old, which in military talk is very old, I decided to go to officer candidate school. So, I'm one of the oldest guys in my officer candidate class. I didn't have a degree yet. So, I was working full time at Consumers Energy, I was in the National Guard going to OCS. I had two small children at home. My then wife was going to Michigan State University, and I had to get my bachelor's degree by the time I graduated OCS. So, I went to school full time and got my bachelor's degree in two and a half years. Thank you very much to Lansing Community College and Fire up Chips, Central Michigan University really helped me through that whole situation. But, I accomplish it and I credit my training in the military to all of that.
And then, you know, 9/11 happened and lots of things changed and I found myself deployed to Iraq as a fresh lieutenant. Most of the time company commanders are captains. I was still a lieutenant, but they tapped me for company command, and I was assured that, hey, you know, you got a year, two years to get into the groove, you'll figure it out, blah blah blah. Six months later, my good friend General Stone, who's now retired, called me on the phone and said, hey, you know all that stuff I said about you got a year or two years, that was all crap. You guys have six weeks to get trained up and get ready to go. So, it was tough. I had a lot of great people working with me to make that happen. We were very shorthanded because at this time a lot of units were deploying to Iraq. So, I only had one platoon of deployable soldiers. So, we had to pull people from different units around the state and even a different unit from Connecticut. So, if you think about this, 215 people had to come together all from different walks of life and different places in the country, different places in the state. We didn't meet many of them until we actually got to Iraq. So, we got there. I will say that I made… I'm not going to say it was the mistake, but I made the naive statement to all of the families as we were leaving that, hey, I'm going to bring all of your families back. I'm going to bring your sons back, bring your daughters back. And I did not know how hard it would be to keep that promise to families. We did bring everybody back. Everybody didn't come back the same way that they left though. It was a very tough deployment. It was, as a company commander, you see people getting hurt doing what you've asked them to do. So, that was very difficult for me to reconcile in my head. Because honestly, my soldiers were just incredible because they would sometimes question things, but only in a way that helped us accomplish our mission better. No one ever said, well, I'm not gonna do that. But sometimes they would say, hey, why are we doing it this way? Could we do it this way? Which was awesome. I was happy that they felt comfortable in doing that. But at the end of the day, they were out executing what I needed them to do and bad things happened while they were out there doing that. So, that was very difficult. And, you know, if you think about it, I was much older than most of my peers. I had a lot of life experience behind me. So, it was very strange to experience this kind of towards the end of my career rather than in the middle or the beginning, which is where most people are at when they're getting deployed.
Maddy: Well, thank you for your service. That's incredible. And what a tough thing to go through. Like, hearing you talk about it, like I can tell still is affecting you because that's, that's a lot. Can you talk about what that transition was like after you go through this and you know, obviously the heavy mental load and physical load and what it was like to transition out of that when you, when you came home?
Bill: Yeah. So that's a tough one because if you think about regular army folks, when they come home, they come home to an army base with all of the support system around them, When you’re in the National Guard. So, I stepped off the battlefield on October 13th in 2007. Got on a plane, went to Fort Dix, New Jersey for about two weeks to do all my medical stuff. And then I got on a plane, came home, we did our nice big, everyone got together, hurrah, and then everyone's gone. And here I am two weeks later in my car, driving to my office on Willow Street, right? And, will never forget this. I'm going to try and do this without getting too emotional. But I will never forget that I, I get in my car. It's like, it's November, right? And so, it's one of those Michigan November days. It's just the sun is shining and it's like crisp. You can see your breath, but it's still just a beautiful day. You can kind of hear the birds in the background. And I get in my car, I drive to work, I get out, I lock the door and I'm walking to the office and I'm thinking to myself, man, this is going to be a great day. Now it wasn't a great day because the birds were chirping and it wasn't a great day because the sun was shining. It was a great day because no one shot at me and nothing blew up on my way to work because we're 24/7, 365, that was my life. I thought, my next thought was, my God, I'm a crazy person because nobody thinks like this. Like, where is this coming from? And they sort of buried it. And what I didn't realize was that I had changed in that I didn't have a lot of compassion for other people's problems. Like I remember sitting in a meeting and this was back when OSHA had decided that everyone needed to wear these reflective vests if they were not inside a truck so they wouldn't get hit by cars. And I'm in a meeting and this argument's going on with the union and management about these stupid vests. And like, I just got tired of hearing it. I remember going, you know, why don't you try driving around in 130 degrees in a closed-up vehicle with a hundred pounds of gear on your back? And then you can come with me with your stupid, silly problems. And I remember hearing someone go, man, that dudes got some anger management issues. And it got, it kept getting worse. Like I remember being at home and my kids will laugh about this and like they tease me about this now, but it was not funny when it happened. Being at home and we were playing a game called Trouble and anyone out there listening may or may not remember this game, but Trouble, like you have these little pegs you move around the board and if someone steps on your peg, you get sent back home. And I had two daughters at home at the time and they were battling it out on the Trouble board. And my youngest daughter, who really enjoys pushing my oldest daughter's buttons, was doing a great job of pushing her buttons that day. And they were just going at it. Like, my youngest daughter kept sending my oldest daughter back home. And I just remember at one point they were just bickering like kids do. And I picked up the game board and I threw it against the wall and smashed it, told them to shut up, yelled some explicative that I won't say on your podcast and then felt really bad about it, but I mean, the look on their faces was just awful. And I was like in this downward spiral trying to transition from what I had been doing for a year to what I'm doing now. And it was just, it wasn't working. I had a lot of guilt. I had a lot of PTSD going on, had a lot of health problems because many times in the military, if you stay in long enough, you just, it wears your body out.
So, I will share this and if it’s too much, you can edit it. But at one point I was suicidal. And I was in the process of taking my life when someone called me on the phone, like out of the blue, the phone rings and I'm like, okay, so I picked up the phone, and it was just a buddy of mine. And they were like, hey, how's it going? And I did what a lot of military people do because we get really good at lying about how we feel. And I said, hey, I'm doing great. Everything's fine, you know, la-di-da. And I hung up the phone and I'm like, oh my God, I got to do something. So, I went and got help, which by the way, is not a weakness. If you need help, you need help. And having mental health issues is no different from breaking your leg, right. If I break my leg and go see a doctor, and I get my leg fixed. If you have mental health issues, you go see somebody and get those taken care of as well. I don't want to say they ever get fixed, but you learn how to deal with the things that you're going through. And so that transition was especially difficult, I think, in that there was not a huge support system around. And I didn't really know what was going on. I'm having panic attacks. I'm being a jerk to people. And I'm like, no, this is just who I am now. This is what happens when you come back from war.
Maddy: Yeah.
Bill: And I've learned over a long period of time, it's just not necessarily so.
Maddy: Wow. There are so many things going through my head right now. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that. It makes me a little emotional. I think that friend that called you from that perspective, I'm sorry.
Bill: Oh, you're fine.
Maddy: Like someone like me who never served in the military and that easy thing of just like, hey, just checking in, just calling you or texting you or just being there. Like it doesn't need to be something huge. That can really save someone. And that allowed you to take a step back and say, “whoa, I need to get some help.” So, I think a lot of people don't understand what people like yourself who serve to go through when you come back and then you kind of feel isolated like, I don't know why I'm feeling this way. And it doesn't mean that I have to understand it but just being there for people that you know have served or may be struggling makes a huge difference. And that demonstrates that perfectly. Can you share, if you're comfortable, or even just, you're still in the realm of supporting the military and veterans and what those resources might look like for someone who is struggling and where they can turn to if they feel a little bit lost.
Bill: Yeah. So, before I say that, I want to, I want to say one other thing and that is that, you know, once in a while you get that gut feeling like I haven't talked to Bob in like six months, call Bob or call Mary or whoever that person is because you never know what that phone call is going to do for them. Might do something for you too. Who knows. But I always say every day you should pick up the phone and call someone you haven't talked to in a while. Whether they serve in the military or not, people struggle daily. And that's a great way to just get them off the ledge. Maybe they're not on the ledge. Maybe you're on the ledge and you don't know it.
Maddy: Right.
Bill: So, yeah, who knows? So, you know, as far as resources go, I think that, you know, the Veterans Administration, the VA gets a bad rap. They were not so pleasant to work with when I first got back. Maybe some of that was them, maybe some of that was me, I don't know. But I do work with them quite a bit now. The VA is a great resource for just about anything a veteran needs. You know, we work with a group called VetLifeToday.org, run by Josh Parish and his wife, Cortnie. And they have actually developed a thing called the Battle Buddy app that you can download on your phone and go in there and tell it what you need, and it will get you resources. It is amazing. Like anything you need, it's there. And it's not just for military people, it can be their spouses or family as well. So that's available. You know, there's Military OneSource. There's all kinds of places where you can get help if you're a veteran and you need that help. In Michigan, there's just countless places that will help veterans fix their house, fix their car. If they need a car, buy a car, help them get educated. You know, that's all out there. But, if you're looking for one stop shopping, the Battle Buddy app is a great place, the VA is a great place. If you're in crisis, you can call 988. I think it's option one for the military. That's the military crisis line. And they've been very good. I've referred lots of people to them and they've been very, very helpful. So, there are places to get help. You can go to our website and click on some of those resources as well.
Maddy: Yeah, I was… I talked to someone from West Michigan Veterans Coalition and they have scholarships and I thought it was super interesting because they give money to veterans for like things you wouldn't think about. Like they're looking for a job and they don't have work boots and they'll supply those, buy those for them or a computer for going back to school and things like that. So those resources are out there, you just gotta be, you just gotta look for them and be willing to reach out and like start that process, right?
Bill: Yeah. Well, many times, veterans who are struggling don't realize that there are groups out there that have money that they struggle to give away.
Maddy: Yeah. For just those things, right?
Bill: Right. All of those things. Another great resource that people don't know about, the VFW National Home in Eaton Rapids, Michigan. If you're a veteran family and you're struggling, The VFW National Home is amazing- 600-acre campus with 42 homes. They bring in veterans who are struggling, help them learn how to be more financially responsible, help them get back on their feet and then send them on their way. Yeah, the resources are there.
Maddy: Yeah, for sure. Okay, is there anything else you want to share about your experience before we dive into Veterans Archives?
Bill: Yeah and I think a good segue would be that while I was struggling with all of this, I listened to a lot of podcasts. Like I would mow my lawn and listen to a podcast. You know, it was my therapy. And again, I was isolating myself, but I was listening to something. And I heard this podcast called The Moth Radio Hour on NPR. I hear this story about Piper Kerman. She wrote a book called Orange is the New Black. She talked about her experiences going to prison, all these things. Anyway, so I find out after listening to this podcast that they do these StorySlam events. And so, I started going to those, because I want to tell my story. But it's like a lottery, right? You put your name in a hat, they draw 10 names, those 10 people get to get up and tell their stories. So, for months I go to this thing, I don't get picked. I finally get picked. I get up and I tell my story and I realized at the end of that, that not only was it like this cathartic thing for me, like I told my story and it kind of unburdened me. But there were people in the audience who had experienced similar things, and they would come up and say, hey, you know, that happened to me and I thought like I was the only person that ever felt that way or I thought I only person who went through that. And so, I found through storytelling that I could help myself and help others. And then I started a podcast for Consumers Energy and realized that I had a knack for getting people to tell me their stories and in telling their stories, they were helping themselves and helping others as well. I… it was just incredible. So, I think storytelling is a great way, if people are inclined to really help themselves, help others at the same time.
Maddy: Absolutely. Especially I feel like the rise of podcasts today is high. Like I feel like everyone's going on and telling their stories and I can definitely see that. So, can you explain how Veterans Archives works and that whole process? Like what people do?
Bill: Yeah. First of all, people are usually scared because they don't really know. The second thing is, is that veterans tend to not want to talk about themselves. And so, that could be a challenge. But what we do at Veterans Archives is we meet with veterans and we record their personal histories. But we don't just sit and swap war stories. There's plenty of people out there that do that. You know, hey, tell me about this or tell me about your experience in the military- we capture the whole veteran. So, our process is about an hour and a half to two hours long. We sit down, we put on microphones, we've got a camera, we do all that stuff. And then we just have a conversation veteran to veteran. And we talk about, hey, tell me when and where you were born? Like, what was it like growing up? What was school like for you? Did you have brothers and sisters? Tell me about your parents. You know, I want to learn about the whole veteran because our time and service does not necessarily define who we are, right? Like I'm a veteran, but I'm a dad and I'm a brother and I'm a son, I'm a husband, I'm all of these things. So, that's what we do. And then we talk about time and service. What did you do in the military? What did you like? What didn't you like? Why did you get out if you got out? And what are you doing now? We talk about what they're doing now. And some of those are some of the best stories you'll hear it’s like, what did you do when you got out of the military? And so, we record that, that whole setup. And then then it's edited. We never edit for content, right? If you say something, if you say a swear word or whatever, we're not going to edit that out. It's your story, tell it how you want to tell it. But we do edit it for like, hey, you take a bathroom break or someone coughs or sneezes or something happens. And then we put that story, the audio version of that story, on a memory card, put it in a nice display box with our logo on the top, a challenge coin inside and send that to the veteran free of charge. So, we never charge a veteran for the service that we provide. We keep a copy. We put the video version on our YouTube channel. We have a podcast where the stories go, the unedited versions of our stories. And then we're across all social media. So, we have 30 to 90 second clips across, post twice a day so, you can kind of hear snippets of the stories as well. Captured 162 stories so far since 2022 and we're looking to hit 250 by the end of this year. But very easy process- you either call me direct or you fill out a form from our website and I call you, we set up a time, I come to your house if you're more comfortable. We've done tons of interviews with someone sitting in their comfy chair, sipping on their coffee, petting their dog, or playing with their cats or whatever. People can come to my house, I have a little area there where I do the recordings. You know, like I mentioned before, some area businesses allow us to use the space there as well. So, it's whatever is comfortable for the veteran to do. It's, it's, I've never had one veteran get up and say, wow, that was terrible. Most of the time they're like, wow, I feel like I just got done with therapy, you know?
Maddy: Yeah.
Bill: Like they've, they've talked about things they haven't talked about in long time. You know, I served in the Navy, I served in the Army. My stepdad was a Marine, so I lived in a Marine household. So, I can speak the language. I understand it from a veteran's perspective, having spent 21 years. So, it's a very easy conversation to have. If there's things people don't want to share, they don't have to share them. If they've shared something they didn't want to share, we can edit that if they ask us to. So, we just make it a very comfortable experience. What we really want is to capture our nation's history from our nation's heroes in their words and in their voices, right? You can read it in a book, but that's different from seeing that person and hearing them say it, because everyone has their own way of speaking. They, you know, they have their own book, all of those things. And so that's really what we want. You know, if you're going to hear about history, let's hear it from the men and women that actually created it.
Maddy: Yeah. That's so cool. And I didn't know you put them out there to listen to. So, I'll have to check that out and what a neat thing for them to have and for their families to have to hang on to. That's such a neat idea that you've come up with. Is there a way that people can support you guys in your mission?
Bill: Absolutely. So, lots of ways to do that. If you go to our website, veteransarchives.org, make sure you get the S's in there. I don't know where you're going to go, but veteransarchives.org. has an engagement page. You know, right now we have our golf outing coming up where we're looking for donations and support for that. But also, volunteers. Also on our engagement page, can donate directly dollars. You can volunteer to help us out. We don't really have a big volunteer program, but we'll find something for you to do if that's what you want to do. So really our website is the hub for all of that. And I've put my phone number on the website, so you can call me direct and I will answer the phone. But that's the way to get involved. You know, we get grants from places like Consumers Energy. They've been wonderful to us. Hanover Insurance has been really good to us and other places. We have a lot of small donors who donate, you know, 10 or 15 bucks or whatever it is. We have donors who do a monthly, which is amazing. So, what I tell people is that we will never refuse a donation, but we never ask for money from the veterans or their families. Many times they donate anyway, but we don't ask for it because we want it to be free. We don't want that pressure. But we do a good job of raising the funds we need. We're so small that we don't need a ton of money.
Maddy: Yeah.
Bill: And right now, we're funded to get a lot of our work done. Our golf outing was really successful last year. So, yeah, the other way you can support us, and this is the most important way, so I save it for last, if you are a veteran or you know a veteran, we want their story. We want that veteran story. We want to hit 250 stories this year because it's our nation's 250th birthday. But also 250 stories, that's powerful. If you want to go search for something from World War II all the way up to current, we have it out there.
Maddy: That's so cool. Is there an option if someone's like far to do virtual?
Bill: That's a great question. We do virtual all the time.
Maddy: Oh, sweet.
Bill: We do. I'll travel sometimes. I was out visiting my family in Arizona and ran into a guy in Florence, Arizona, which is a small, it's like a cowboy town. Anyway, I interviewed him. Turns out that he had been in a rock band with my brother, like in Minneapolis back in the early 2000s. Yeah. Brad Voss. But yeah, so we had this whole, like, connection. So that was very cool. We're going to be down in Georgia next week for the ranger reunion and we'll be interviewing army rangers from all over. So, we'll do that and then we can use Zoom or Teams also.
Maddy: Okay.
Bill: Yeah. So, wherever you're at, we'll meet you somehow.
Maddy: Whatever it takes.
Bill: Exactly.
Maddy: Love that. Alright. Is there anything else you wanted to share? When's that golf outing? You said it's coming up.
Bill: Yeah. The golf outing is August 29th.
Maddy: Okay.
Bill: And last year everyone had a great time. The Red Bull folks showed up. So, everyone was energized throughout the day. Yeah, it's just a great time. Have lots of games, lots of fun. Even if you don't golf, you can still golf.
Maddy: Yeah.
Bill: Will be at Wheatfield out in Williamston. It's a great golf course. Actually met the owners not too long ago and we're looking forward to it.
Maddy: Perfect. Anything else you want to share before we wrap it up?
Bill: Yeah, I just I… I do want to share this. You know, we started this, you know, it was really cool. Wanted to get all these stories of veterans and we wanted this, you know, powerful way for people to go out and see these stories. And the real like sort of light bulb moment for me was January of last year. I met with a veteran named Vicki. She was at the veteran’s home in Grand Rapids and Vicki had stage four pancreatic cancer. I've never seen anyone live as long as she did with stage four pancreatic cancer. Usually you go right away. But I kept trying to get her story and you know, things would happen or whatever, but she was getting ready to go on this trip to Disney with her family. Really kind of like the last time they were gonna go and I said, know, Vicki, when you get back, you're gonna be really tired. Just get this story recorded and then you have it and your family has it. So, she agreed. I met her, we had a great two hour conversation, just loved talking with her. You know, she was a female serving in the 80s, she was a mechanic, which is, you know, not a lot of women were mechanics in the army at the time. So, it was just this fantastic story. She had this really good love of family. It was just a great story. And every time I was back out there, I'm like, I gotta stop in and say hi to Vicki. I gotta stop in and say hi to Vicki but not too long after that, I was home on a Saturday making lunch and my phone rang and it was her son. And he called and said, hey, I want you to know Vicki passed away. But we are so thankful that we have this recording and that video that we could use as part of her memorial service so people could see and hear her talk about her family and how much she loved them and her time in service and all of the things that she had done in her life. And to me, that's really the reason we do this. So that the families have that legacy from that veteran that lives on.
Maddy: Absolutely. Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you for sharing everything today and being vulnerable and opening up. And I really appreciate it. And thank you again for your service. It's amazing.
Bill: Well, thanks for having me on, really appreciate it.
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